tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20480185.post7932063257356852040..comments2023-12-23T10:18:58.321+00:00Comments on The Extra Bold Blog: Axe the fat taxJoe Ottenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18380362092159905533noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20480185.post-22286010433933523242012-03-24T21:12:40.324+00:002012-03-24T21:12:40.324+00:00Why not to forbid poisoning people with tobacco an...Why not to forbid poisoning people with tobacco and unhealthy food?? Not to tax them more, but to make them qualify their production (i.e. food) and to forbid tobacco for sure. Why it is still legal at all? Why do they still make money steeling them from the governments and Medicaid due to the sickness and deaths of us all? And overweight people must receive support from psychologists, ideologists, must receive discounts at gyms and etc. Let us feel that our society cares about us, wish us the best and does not despise us for our problem which we are not able to solve ourselves. That’s why we have it. And if you tax us for our body kilograms for Medicaid or plain tickets we will be much unhappier and less self confident. We will be even more ashamed of ourselves and will exercise and go out less, we will eat more and gain even more overweight. As Bild, the German newspaper, estimated that treatment for obesity-related illnesses cost Germany some £16 billion a year, so better spend that money for our wellness showing that you care, understand and help youself by helping us!<br />http://www.facebook.com/naturalwaytodietHow to diethttp://www.facebook.com/naturalwaytodietnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20480185.post-45598265258237197182011-10-20T23:33:29.050+01:002011-10-20T23:33:29.050+01:00Thanks Alix. There is an important point here - th...Thanks Alix. There is an important point here - that even today's dietary advice, which we (at least I) think is probably largely correct, for most people, is not based on controlled trials of diet, but merely on observations. This is not really good enough for 'evidence based' dietary advice. We wouldn't approve a drug on the basis of merely observing its effects in the wild - because we would approve many ineffective drugs if we did that.<br /><br />So there are advocates around for the position that being overweight - BMI in the high 20s - need not be unhealthy. They may be right. Observing that in the wild people with BMI in this range suffer a greater frequency of various health problems does not prove them wrong, because correlation does not imply causality.Joe Ottenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18380362092159905533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20480185.post-22768744397853816012011-10-20T21:58:26.116+01:002011-10-20T21:58:26.116+01:00*comes in late*
The main problem with the thankfu...*comes in late*<br /><br />The main problem with the thankfully axed fat tax proposal, as I saw it, is that it was subject to dieting fashion. No-one has a good word to say about trans fats, certainly, but saturated fat was merely the particular demon of the late 1980s/1990s. Arguably we are where we are now with the obesity crisis because an entire generation of people David Cameron's age have got it into their heads that they can eat/drink all the filler-stuffed "diet" crap they want as long as they also use "low-fat spread" on their toast. They can't. It comes back to the terribly boring "everything in moderation" thing. It's not okay to drink diet coke and eat two rounds of white bread every day any more than it's ok to have a mound of bacon for breakfast every day. Who knew? Of course, the new demon is carbohydrates and inevitably some people take that too far as well.<br /><br />For this reason, I find it very difficult to concede a role for government in taxing anything less obviously and universally bad than cigarettes.Alixhttp://fabulousblueporcupine.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20480185.post-87795861802638510452011-10-13T21:58:32.756+01:002011-10-13T21:58:32.756+01:00I think in the long run it would be far better to ...I think in the long run it would be far better to address the issues why people over-eat or consume junk foods in the first place. Yes it’s no tall order it’s not something that’s going to happen overnight. But a blanket tax is punishes everyone which is disproportionate.<br />@ Ian, died drinks are no walk in the park. They contain artificial sweeteners which there are still many questions about. I much prefer something with natural sugars in it; fruit juice!Tim Ottennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20480185.post-87508167338756944292011-10-10T09:26:35.132+01:002011-10-10T09:26:35.132+01:00Agreed. A major underlying problem is that the sci...Agreed. A major underlying problem is that the science behind the "obesity" epidemic is almost universally rubbish.<br /> - assumes that BMI is a useful measure for individuals<br /> - assumes that there are major step changes in risk every 5 BMI points<br /> - assumes correlation equals causation without much evidence<br /> - assumes all human bodies are idealised "bunsen burners" when processing food<br /><br />All of this is provably - and in most cases self-evidently - false, but it nevertheless forms the basis of most scientific investigation and government policy.<br /><br />It's basically become a moral panic: fat people are evil.cimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17149122031702105816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20480185.post-3870067925797756872011-10-09T22:48:18.510+01:002011-10-09T22:48:18.510+01:00Fair enough Ian.
Though flapjack made with vegeta...Fair enough Ian.<br /><br />Though flapjack made with vegetable oil rather than butter is just nasty.<br /><br />I wouldn't mind banning trans fats which after all have no nutritional or culinary merit. And like you say this is the big win healthwise. Or at least slap big labels on each product with them "This contains trans fats and therefore is shit." or words to that effect.<br /><br />Saturated fats on the other hand. Meh.Joe Ottenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18380362092159905533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20480185.post-35802695845483311042011-10-09T21:32:24.318+01:002011-10-09T21:32:24.318+01:00Actually, I think you've misunderstood the sci...Actually, I think you've misunderstood the science behind all this. I'm not sure what's being considered here, and I don't suppose Cameron does either. However, what's happened in Denmark bears no relationship to your analysis.<br /><br />In 2003, Denmark dealt with the worst fat problem - trans fats - by virtually banning them. Trans fat content has reduced by about 20 times, in the worst foods. Ischemic heart disease has halved as a result. This has happened with zero impact on calories consumed, and zero impact on flavour.<br /><br />Just recently, they've introduced a tax on foods with a certain proportion of saturated fats. The threshold, btw is 2.3%, which just avoids taxing full fat milk. So, it's not a fat tax at all, it's a <i>saturates</i> tax. Again, it's likely that manufacturers will be able to adjust recipes to avoid the tax, without changing the taste of their foods.<br /><br />And this isn't a tax on obesity (Denmark fares well there), or even on calories. It's about tackling Denmark's relatively low life expectancy (for a European nation). All that can be done because saturated fats cause harm disproportionate to their calorie content.<br /><br />Oh, and on the question of flavour: I started drinking diet drinks a few years ago, as part of a reasonably successful attempt to lose weight. I didn't like the flavour at first, but acquired the taste, and it's not a problem any longer. Also, new recipes mean that low calorie diet drinks probably are more palatable now. Of course, this has nothing to do with fat, because there's no fat in any fizzy drinks.<br /><br />A couple of other points worth noting: Denmark has also increased tax on sugary drinks, but reduced tax on diet drinks. And, these taxes might be regarded as merely reversing the harmful effects of EU agricultural subsidies which serve to artificially suppress food prices across the board. <br /><br />We already have variable food taxation in the UK, with a very confusing VAT regime. It seems to me that it would be better to have a regime with a science backed health objective than the arbitrary one we already have.Ian Eiloarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15353548476698379538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20480185.post-12907970039836318282011-10-09T17:16:27.717+01:002011-10-09T17:16:27.717+01:00Perhaps, Tony. Or minimum alcohol pricing.
I thin...Perhaps, Tony. Or minimum alcohol pricing.<br /><br />I think there is a difference in that alcohol is rarely an incidental ingredient in a product (well except bread I suppose), rather the product is there as a means to deliver alcohol into the body.<br /><br />Does alcohol duty encourage drinks companies to make lower alcohol products? Perhaps, a little, but not enough to make a difference.<br /><br />At least wine can be as nice as vodka (but not a good scotch whisky). Low fat spread is uniformly inferior to butter.<br /><br />I think a particular problem with both the fat tax and minimum alcohol pricing is that it seems to reflect the view that "the poor" are making the wrong choices and need to be coerced, but the better off are entitled to make those same choices.Joe Ottenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18380362092159905533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20480185.post-2900988962873992302011-10-09T16:18:22.336+01:002011-10-09T16:18:22.336+01:00A reasonable thought experiment would be to replac...A reasonable thought experiment would be to replace 'fat tax' with 'alcohol duty' and change the negative effects over and see how it reads.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00446535470734199043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20480185.post-82500478518033107752011-10-09T16:16:28.622+01:002011-10-09T16:16:28.622+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00446535470734199043noreply@blogger.com